I spent about 30 minutes using/touring Vision Pro yesterday. Ask me anything.

@gruber Do you think this will be the new default personal computing in 10 years?

@yuliyan @gruber I have no doubts. It’ll be ten years better, but augmented reality is inevitable. The tech will get increasingly transparent: ski google > eyeglasses > contacts > implants — it’s inevitable. #visionpro is a big step. ,,, That quote about tech becoming indistinguishable from magic: we’re pretty used to it but I’m talking to a magical, glowing, talking stone I pulled out of my pocket (iPhone) right now to communicate with you and I don’t even know where you are.

@sqot @gruber Regarding it being inevitable...I do not think implants should be inevitable, unless your life depends on it. I also do not think that a stronger integration into the human body is a good thing. I'd rather want to see spacial interfaces being projected in plain sight, without wearables. #visionpro is virtualizing space and overlaying it into our sight. It's closer to a hallucination than to physical reality. Is a computer keyboard less spacial?

@yuliyan @gruber Folie à deux? Folie à tout le monde! Bring it! This also reminds me of the backlash against trains, “If God meant us to travel faster than 20 mph, He would have created faster horses.” #visionpro

@sqot
Ok let me apply the comparison you gave to my viewpoint. Implanting a computer in railway terms would be something along the lines of individualizing the mobile entity, e.g. screwing train wheels onto human feet, or - to use a real world example - the car. Individualized experiences tend to harm societies. I see a similar tendency when it comes to highly personalized computers.

@gruber

@gruber Feel any motion sickness?

@gruber the big question: Why? (In your estimation after touring it)

@gruber basic question - what does it plug into for power?

@gruber How is the FOV?

@gruber How is the field of view? Do the displays update at 90 Hz or 120 Hz?

@gruber What are notifications like?

@gruber does it run Xcode?😂

@gruber which Godfather character do you want to play in the interactive reenactment game?

@gruber can it be used as an external monitor while your laptop is closed?

@gruber how many tabs did you open in Safari?

@gruber Do you have to shut it down to swap battery packs? Or can they be hot swapped?

@gruber what do you think needs the most work between now and release?

@gruber Do you see it as a product you would buy? What would you use it for?

@gruber Why did they target people who like Disney? Why did they target it for social events like birthdays?

It's $3500, clearly not meant for social events, and families can't afford to buy bunch of these to watch Disney movies.

@gruber Have they explained how it works for glasses wearers? Will I need special prescription lenses for it? What would that cost?

@gruber Do you think eye-tracking will come to iOS (and maybe the Mac) in the next few years? Is it the new multi-touch?

@gruber What would you personally do with it at this time?

@gruber the Digital Crown to increase/decrease immersion, how was that experience?

@gruber After using it, do you feel/think the price is justified

@gruber What are the top 3 usecases for this assuming price is no concern?

@gruber how’s the fidelity? Will is actually work well for reading text?

@gruber How much would you co-sign a view that in the future Vision will occupy the personal computing space that the Mac occupies?

@gruber how do you feel about the front eye display having seen it in person?

@gruber Hoe did it feel? How did you feel?

@gruber On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the creepiest, how creepy are:

1. The eyes shown on the outside of the headset?
2. The deepfaked "persona” you see in FaceTime etc?

@gruber can you describe the demo environment and the presentation of the hardware? How guided is the experience — are there specialized tools for determining fit? A range of head bands and light seals on hand?

@gruber How does it look? Does it have the usual chromatic aberrations of VR displays, or were they finally able to fix them?

@gruber are the speakers bone conduction?

@gruber how does it work as a Mac screen?

@gruber Is it good enough for blogging? 😀

Really, though:
- is 30 minutes enough to become hot under the headset?
- I assume it has fans behind those vents. Are those audible?
- how creepy are those fake eyes in person?
- would you, personally, spend the 3.5k to own one (if you weren’t doing daring fireball)?

@gruber How do notifications work?

@gruber does it support multiple user profiles?

@gruber Headsets historically have had poor effective resolution when used for text, compared to a desktop display. Word is that Vision Pro’s clarity is much better, but the text size was quite large in the keynote videos.

Did you get a sense of how competitive it is compared to, say, 2 Studio Displays on a Mac, in terms of screen real estate for text?

@gruber which aspects of the current hardware do you expect will be changed to result in a less expensive ‘Air’ model down the line?

@gruber did you get to use it connected to a Mac? If so, how was the experience compared to native Vision OS and iPad apps?

@yuliyan @gruber I like the discussion. Here’s the thing: as people have freedom 2 choose, they choose isolation bec we’ve all been hurt by people, so 2 varying degrees we choose 2 protect ourselves fm people in isolating ways. I’ve spent a lot of time overseas in areas that r much less affluent than the US, & people are generally poorer, have fewer choices & more difficult lives, but are happier & closer to their families. The #visionpro being isolating will be a symptom not cause.

@MattD @gruber Also looking forward to this answer. The technology looks incredible but a lot of it seems like it’s better served as a fancy tech demo than an actual product.

@emoryr @gruber same question, the weak point of all AR headsets is the FOV.

@Psimonkey10 The battery has a USB-C port.

@Psimonkey10 @gruber Battery pack or ac/dc

@Psimonkey10 @gruber My understanding from literature - headset to battery is a proprietary connector. battery has USB-C, which can be both used for recharging and for all-day use. No thunderbolt cables coming out of the side of your head, though.

@Psimonkey10 The battery pack has USB-C in for power.

@maxsz @gruber I'd expect to be able to use Swift Playgrounds natively. Not sure if it would be running within an actual playground experience.

@garyrogers Tom Hayden.

@brandon I’m also interested in this, or more to the point, can it be used as a monitor for a headless Mini/Studio. @gruber

@brandon @gruber Unfortunately, I’ll be needing to use the MS RDP client to remote into a Windows AVD for work, but I expect that to work well. It works well with iPad, so I expect it to work better with #visionpro

@crichton007 @gruber yes curious about the battery handling process too. I think the MagSafe is designed to lock in place by turning it. But yea if you need to swap batteries what do you do?

@mikesax @gruber It might be possible, but I would imagine it would be a much rougher estimation than on a headset with a dozen plus sensors all watching your eye movement and focus from an inch away.

@foobarsoft @gruber they showed prescription inserts from Zeiss during the announcement

@mikesax @gruber I’ve been waiting/wanting eye tracking to replace mouse/trackpad for years, but feels like investing in eye tracking for other platforms is a waste of time now; I want to replace my other devices with “spatial computing” asap.

@mattferrell @gruber Based on what everyone is saying. The answer seems to be that the fidelity is amazing and works well for reading text.

@apike very much this! Rewatching the keynote, most of the demos were more ipad-style where single apps more or less took up most of the pixels. They mentioned the “look at your mac and use vision pro as your monitor”, but it’s not clear to me what the effective resolution/PPI would be with that kind of use.

@sqot @gruber All I wish for is hovering holographic displays mid-air. No strings attached.

@sqot @yuliyan @gruber very astute. You are what you eat. Isolation is the symptom of a much bigger societal issue.

@Olivares @emoryr For me it exactly matched my natural FOV without it.

@jamesoloughlin @gruber I’m curious because I don’t see how the headset will make the estimated 2 hours streaming Avatar in 3D

@nmn @gruber I’m really looking forward to trying it out for myself. That’s been one of my main issues with every headset I’ve tried.

@gruber @Olivares Wow, appreciate the response. So to clarify, wearing the headset and looking forward you had no kind of “scuba mask” effect? The view wrapped your entire FOV without seeing the edge of the HMD? Have you used the Meta Quest/2, how would it compare to that FOV?

@crichton007 @jamesoloughlin By watching while plugged in.

@crichton007 @gruber guess the solution for that is just plug it into a wall. 😏

@mattferrell @gruber This is the first headset with screens this sharp. I think reading text is not even a concern!

@emoryr @gruber so you have artificial ui everywhere in your fov 🤨. I will need a proof for that, cause all headsets I saw before where limited, and really limited.

@gruber Did you have a chance to see how it works for consuming content together with somebody else?

That’s what I’m most curious about … Can you and your wife (or friend or a bunch of friends) watch the same content together using Vision Pro? Sure, SharePlay is there, but that also requires a FaceTime call to initiate SharePlay though somebody did point out that with iOS 17 it’s possible to initiate SharePlay just by bringing your phones together …

Just wondering how easy/seamless the process might be overall …

@gruber was the UI such as the home icons and windows as clear as showed in the keynote?

@gruber how fatiguing is it for the eyes?

@fdrc_ck Did seem fatiguing at all after 30 minutes.

@scor Hard to say because the demo tour stuck to things that are already working well. So, basically, I'd guess "all the things they didn't let us try”. Things like Mac display mode, virtual keyboard.

@gruber Did you experience any dizziness? Or it was seamless

@CarlosSierraOz None. Seamless.

@gruber

Ben mentioned he felt it would become the new Mac… do you feel the same?

@jackifus No. I think it’s more like the new iPad.

@jackifus @gruber
That sounds a lot like “IPads are the new PC”.

@freediverx @jackifus @gruber More like, “iPhones’ are the new cell phone”.

@Ciantic Because Disney is the #1 entertainment company in the world. And for social events like birthdays, I'd imagine using it for short moments. Like using big camcorders from 20+ years go.

@gruber Does it have enough resolution to feel “retina display-ish” or do you feel like you're looking at a screen?

@dan Retina quality for sure. Not like looking at a screen.

@szbalint Movies, work, games.

@gruber would watching a movie on it be a good experience? Better then watching on a phone? Better then a good TV?

@ian Better than a TV. 1000x better than watching on a phone.

@mzagaja Nope. Just speakers.

@iSchack Didn't feel warm at all after 30 minutes of non-stop use.

@marcel I don't know. Not part of the demo.

@apike It's really hard to say because we didn't get to test Mac display mode at all. But I'd say it’s good enough to get used to.

@gruber does what they showed in the presentation accurately represent what it’s like to actually use the device? Watching the presentation I was blown away but that’s a high bar they set for themselves.

@MrMacNeil Yes, I think their presentation was very fair.

@gruber it it light on the head? Is there any sense of how it will evolve so that when more than one person is wearing a vision pro in a room will interact with each other (ao that they both exist complimentary environment)

@Doctor_J_ No, it's pretty front-heavy.

@Doctor_J_ @gruber Interesting to think about two people with #visionpro in the same room sharing the augmented/virtual space, but I think the answer is that they don’t have to be in the same room to do it, and can do it if they are in the same room. At least hopefully.

@gruber Could you zoom in on Volpe at short stop?

@michaelq No you can't zoom. It's like watching in real life.

@gruber Q2 What do you think “from” $3499 means? Will there be any meaningful upgrades available apart from different bands and batteries? Cellular? Finishes? Memory? Speed / Chip options?

@gruber Hmmm I guess it would need camera / origin support. F1 probably leads the way with this - all 20 cars can be followed with individual team radio audio. Imagine a baseball game where you choose camera and field mikes. 10 years time is going to be very different for sports coverage.

@michaelq Zero chance they offer cellular, IMO. It's not a mobile device. I think “an up" means prescription lenses, and perhaps multiple storage tiers.

@gruber Ok, how will people afford such an expensive headset?

@nosherwan $3500 is not that much. Original Macintosh was $2500 in 1984. Inflation adjusted that's over $7000 today.

@gruber sure but the competition is very affordable even though it may not be as good. Quest 3 has color pass through for ar is great at vr, has great games and hand gestures. Why wouldnt I get that?

#metaquest

@nosherwan @gruber my experience with the quest 2 is that hand gestures are basically broken and unusable, the games are mostly crap or just yet another lackluster FPS, I have had it for years and still get motion sick from it, watching movies in it is unpleasant at best, social features are not easy to use or you go into the hellscape that is vrchat and the like which feel like YouTube comments that came to life.

I’m skeptical that the quest3 really changes this much.

@nosherwan @gruber I honestly find the experience of the quest2 bad enough that I would only recommend one to the most bleeding edge technophiles and even then it is nothing more than an interesting toy.

@Mulderc @gruber I have a quest 1 and I have been quite happy with it. I got over motion sickness with time. There are some good games on it. You will get relatively the same experience from any AR VR headset. Motion sickness and bad games are not restricted to one headset, if you have a bias against quest and a love for apple that is another thing

@nosherwan @gruber I had a quest 1 and have had the quest 2 since launch, still get motion sickness from time to time. The Vision pro response times and resolution make me hopefully that it can reduce the issue substantially. Hearing from people that have seen the demo and regularly use the quest pro, it sounds like the vision pro is a whole different level. I don’t think I’m bias against the quest, just disappointed in the janky experience that you get from the OS and the lack of good software

@nosherwan @gruber honestly can you name more than 5 good games? Almost all the good VR games require a PC such as half-life alyx and lone echo. Quest native you have beat saber and then things that are either ports (Tetris, RE4, rez) or basically just long tech demos (pistol whip, super hot). Then you get a few games that would have been better on the 3DS like moss.

My quest is basically just a VR workout machine and even then I think apple fitness is generally better.

@Mulderc @gruber motion sickness has existed since the invention of VR headsets that will not vary based on quality, it has to do with human sense of balance. When the body is not moving but your mind and visual perception think it is that causes the issue.

My issue is between a 5000 aud set vs a 1000 aud. I woul never spend 5000 Australian dollars on a gadget when I can get similar experience in a reasonable price

@nosherwan @Mulderc You're thinking that a Quest is similar to a Vision Pro experience?

@nosherwan @gruber based on reports from people that have used the quest and the vision pro, it isn’t a similar experience at all. Motion sickness in these devices can be mitigated through higher frame rates, better screens and lenses, and a whole host of software tricks. It doesn’t solve it but does help. I found the quest 1 to cause worse motion sickness than the 2.

@Mulderc @gruber so again game preference and experiences are relative. Beat saber, pistol whip etc are good enough for me as vr experience. I am not a horror fan so much so that I would like to experience it in vr. But I can understand your point

@nosherwan @gruber yes games preference is relative but you can look at the ratings and just general lack of games for VR and see that it isn’t exactly thriving and the quest library in particular is lackluster at best. Apple Arcade has some good games BUT I wouldn’t call that a success and the quest is probably worse than that.

@Mulderc @gruber that is interesting that means I must try quest 3 maybe my motion sickness will go away 😀

Now I feel like dusting off my quest 1 for now and giving it a go again

@nosherwan @gruber as compared to the quest 1, yeah you will probably have a MUCH better time. Sort of a low bar though. Honestly the q2 is worth it just to get rid of that awful screen door effect. Those screens felt like sandpaper to my eyes, just can’t stand pentile OLED screens.

@gruber I keep thinking it’s something tethered to your phone for data but of course it’s an independent computer. So yeah storage will a thing. But not mobile? Surely there will be people walking around - and god forbid - driving with these on? Someone will try it for sure.

@emoryr @Olivares I have not used a Quest 2, but I did not see scuba mask sides. Was like wearing safety glasses like this:

@gruber does it have any on board battery? Does it shut down if you need to switch plugs?

@brian_c_wilson Shuts down without a battery connected.

@gruber does the (USB-C??) plug allow charge and power at the same time? Hopefully not another Magic Mouse situation.

@brian_c_wilson Yes.

@gruber I’m curious how it compares to current IOS iPad OS for AR features- notably improved?

Has anyone taken a selfie while wearing them to see how the projected eyes looked, tracked (you could move your phone around as your eyes tracked its position.

@Chancerubbage It's nothing at all like ARKit on iOS. ARKit on iOS is jittery and lacks stability. AR with Vision Pro has zero jitter and elements are completely static in space.

EyeSight was not demoed for us, and we weren't allowed to shoot photos.

@gruber I think it was Good Morning America that was allowed to demo them on air. But from everything I’ve heard, none of the demo units had EyeSight enabled.

Is it possible different household members could share the same pair?

@Chancerubbage You can share, but there's no concept of multiple user accounts. Just one main account and guest mode.

@gruber Is there any suggestion of being multi-user support?

We’ve gone well over a decade with iPad and Apple seemingly still expects every member of the household to have their own.

@jeff That's a good question but I bet the answer is that it's like iOS, single user. But maybe more like Apple TV?

@gruber @jeff during the Voices of VR podcast episode about Vision Pro, according to a conversation with an Apple engineer, the device will not support kiosk or multi-user mode

I wonder how you would share the device with a friend if Optic ID works similar to Face ID and is required to unlock it

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/voices-of-vr/id874947046?i=1000615929914

13:10

@peterood @gruber That’s unfortunate.

I feel like it’d be possible to support with Optic ID.

It has been a while since I set up multiple accounts on a Mac. Do you know how Touch ID works there? I imagine it’d be similar — just using a different biometric identifier.

Kiosk mode would be most beneficial, I think, to Apple itself. This is the kind of device that kind of needs actual demonstration to “sell” people on. Ideally in person.

@jeff macOS supports multiple accounts, each with their unique Touch ID

@peterood @jeff It has a guest mode.

@gruber How good is the world tracking? If you put a window or object in the environment and then swivel your head about does it drift?

@pixelscience See my review. No drift at all. Not even a little. 100 percent stable, not 99 percent.

@gruber loved the review. Did you get to use any apps with direct manipulation? The virtual keyboard? How’d that feel?

From the keynote the only app that I saw where you used the 3D space directly was DJay. It was on screen for six seconds.

@pixelscience I didn't get to use the keyboard. I did get to open and zoom photos in Photos, and scroll a web page in Safari. Very natural.

@nikodunk @gruber They said that in the keynote

@nikodunk Of course there's going to be an App Store. Why would there not?

@gruber Any word on different skus? (As in, cell vs Wi-Fi only; storage capacity tiers, etc)

@tg_cid No, no word on that. I'd bet no on cellular, especially in gen 1.

@gruber Could you imagine preferring to use it for a normal day of working on Daring Fireball (i.e. does it feel better for web browsing, would it be compelling with a keyboard for writing up a long article?)

@ryantmaloney Too hard to say after a 30 minute demo. I'd say maybe. But I'd probably prefer a real display. But while travelling? For sure.

@gruber What do the precogs see?

@gruber (I kid, I kid. How is the resizing of windows/viewports? Responsiveness at this early stage? How hidden are UI things? Any weird Dye-isms? Does one feel "instantly at home/at ease" or is it more a confounding state of affairs? App launcher as bad as it seems?)

@gruber How warm does it get under there? Comfort level?

@DonSqueak I didn't notice any warmth at all. The battery pack was warm though.

@gruber @Mulderc vision pro will have superior experience however at the end of the day it is another vr ar headset. Quest 3 does the same in an affordable price and I am content with that

@nosherwan @gruber @Mulderc To me this sounds no different than "iPhone will have a superior experience, however it's just another smartphone. Blackberry does the same and it's cheaper."

I don't even see Vision Pro as being in the same product category as anything else currently on the market. Even now we've seen the same thing happen with the tablet form factor. There's iPad…and there's everyone else. Not even directly comparable.

@jaredwhite @gruber @Mulderc true but for alot of people their device does the job.

@nosherwan @jaredwhite @Mulderc And then BlackBerry went out of business. Quest is a dead-end as far as I'm concerned.

@michaelq Do you see people walking around using iPads?

@gruber @jaredwhite @Mulderc I understand where you guys are coming from, however I feel quest will be the pixel of vr market they have been making headsets for years and I know alot of people who are happy with it. They are definitely not the blackberry in their area

@nosherwan @jaredwhite @Mulderc Being 5-10 years behind feels pretty BlackBerry-ish to me.

@gruber @ryanschultz Have you read this review yet? I tried to copy a link to the toot but it wouldn’t paste.

@gruber Thanks, if the keynote mentioned guest mode it was in passing. Still might require some set up but perhaps one’s iPhone can create, store, and transmit a set up profile for approved guests.

@gruber

Do you think the frosted glass UI (does it even have a cool codename?) will make its way to the Mac?

It seems to me that it would be a way to unify how everything looks.

@macfixer Can you show me what you’re talking about?

@gruber Did you feel any fatigue from the weight of the headset or did you feel any eye strain? I'm very excited about this device and I don't think it's anywhere near the same category as to what's available today... definitely "Spatial Computing" vs "VR".

@machias Eyestrain: no. Weight: yes. It’s not light.

@gruber Can it be worn over spectacles?

@fgbjr No.

@gruber

Maybe I’m using the wrong terms, but it feels like the VP uses different levels of transparency than macOS windows do.

@gruber @Chancerubbage you would think it wouldn’t be TOO difficult to get to Profiles like with Apple TV